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  1. #11

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    holy crap mkorsmo, nicely done!!! reminds me of jim carrey in ace ventura where takes in a deep breath as he explains how he solved the case!!! lol!!!
    so my answer is going to look really stupid next to mk's but i feel this needs to be said too.
    1. study you favorite players and listen as to how and what they play in their solos!
    2. definitely learn scales, modes, etc. and use them where you feel it fits.
    3. if like in your example song in G major using a C, and D major in the song structure happens. try playing that G major scale, and look at how many notes fit into the next 2 chords,(C and D). you might be suprised how it does fit harmonically.
    4. last...from me anyway, solos are personal bits of feeling or communication from the guitarist playing them. talk to your audience or create the feeling, whether it is angry, sad, bluesy, happy, or frantic, or whatever.

    okay thats it from me, so now i look like a total idiot compared to MK (lol), and they'll probably fire me and hire MK to take my place. you'll find me on a street corner somewhere playing my guitar for change, and thinking how i should have studied more. again, nice job MK!!! really, and i aint being sarcastic! you rock dude!!!

  2. #12
    Premium Member Anton's Avatar
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    Red face Wow....

    Wow! I mean... WOW!

    mkorsmo... man. I wish i could process all of that. I mean im gonna copy and save it for later. But if David MacKenize says "you rock dude", that means you do rock, 'cause David rocks big time, and when he says "you rock", you must really rock.

    I envy people like you who know all this by heart already. I can only pray and hope that my head with IQ of 50 can someday comprehend all this information.

    See i'm right at the problem with scales. I mean i play... I can play some songs, switch between open chords and barre chords, change them around and stuff for cooler sound. But i learned to play in a non-systematic way, like friends showed some stuff, some songs i learned off the net by learning chords, strumming and finger picking. So naturally i skipped the whole music theory, and never played any scales before.

    So now i struggle with it big time. I try to listen to scales when i play them, i memorize the patters and try to count steps, but its really not clicking.

    I hope that will change soon. I mean i can already play little solos using known scale patters, and some of it already doesn't sound too out of key.

    That's why i think one day, in not to distant future i will be able to read what you wrote and actually understand it.

    So thank you very much. You rawk!

  3. #13
    Moderator mkorsmo's Avatar
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    Thanks for the kind words Antonskv. The key is to take it all incrementally... don't try to master everything all at once - it's easy to get overwhelmed. It all builds one on another piece... you will find that if you stick with it, over time things will just start to make sense.
    Last edited by mkorsmo; 12-23-2008 at 03:54 AM.
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  4. #14
    Moderator mkorsmo's Avatar
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    Chords, the modes and you.

    So what chords does the Dorian mode work well over? Well, one way to determine compatibility is to look at Dorian's formula... which is... pulling from the the previous post... [insert Wayne and Garth flashback sound effect here]:

    1 - 2 - (flat)3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - (flat)7 - 8 (or I - II - flat III - IV - V - VI - flat VII - VIII (or I of the next octave)

    The next bit is to consider what chords can be build from those intervals...

    Consider a basic minor chord... it's made of the root 1 - a (flat) 3 and 5
    1 - 2 - (flat)3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - (flat)7 - 8

    As you can see, all three of those notes exist in the Dorian scale, SO... a minor chord would be a good fit for the Dorian.

    Likewise a minor 7th... which is 1 - (flat)3 - 5 - (flat) 7...
    1 - 2 - (flat)3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - (flat)7 - 8

    ...and a minor 9th... 1 - (flat)3 - 5 - (flat)7 - 9 (aka the 2 of the next octave)...

    1 - (flat)3 - 5 - (flat) 7...
    1 - 2 - (flat)3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - (flat)7 - 8 (aka 1)- 9 (aka 2)

    So... minor, minor 7th and minor 9th chords are all good candidates for the Dorian mode.

    If you are really into playing around with scales and modes... check out Guitar Grimoire: Scales and Modes. (Actually, I really dig the Grimoire series - they are good tools for messing around with this stuff). This is where I learned about chord compatibility as it pertains to the various modes.

    In the real world...

    If the band was playing a Dm7 chord... you might play D Dorian... (to be continued)
    Last edited by mkorsmo; 12-23-2008 at 04:06 AM.
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  5. #15
    Free Member (Wimp!) jefferson_one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David.MacKenzie View Post
    holy crap mkorsmo, nicely done!!! reminds me of jim carrey in ace ventura where takes in a deep breath as he explains how he solved the case!!! lol!!!
    Skoly Mokes! wowza, that was some intense ideas! Whew .... now I know to address him as "Mister" for the "MR" in his name! hehe

    That was good stuff ... get on a rant and let it flow! I'll get something from that

  6. #16
    Premium Member Anton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkorsmo View Post
    Thanks for the kind words Antonskv. The key is to take it all incrementally... don't try to master everything all at once - it's easy to get overwhelmed. It all builds one on another piece... you will find that if you stick with it, over time things will just start to make sense.
    Ok and here we are... I made sense of all of it 17 days later. Now more practice, more practice, more practice. Thanks man.

  7. #17
    Moderator mkorsmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton View Post
    Ok and here we are... I made sense of all of it 17 days later. Now more practice, more practice, more practice. Thanks man.
    Thanks Anton
    "I can't think of a reason why not..."

  8. #18
    Free Member (Wimp!) sbryant's Avatar
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    Korz, I have a quick question based on your C Major to C Dorian change. When you make the change as you state, doesn't that also change the key? For example, C Major is C Major but C Dorian is a mode of Bflat Major. Is that correct?

  9. #19
    Moderator mkorsmo's Avatar
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    The key stays the same... what I have described is a way to create a bunch of different scales (modes) that you can use to play over a given key or a bunch of chords. They are simply two approaches to creating a bunch of scales you can use - Derivative and Paralell.

    A quick recap...

    Derivative

    The easiest way to construct the modes of a scale is the "Derivative" approach where you DERIVE the modes from a parent scale by shifting the starting point and playing the notes in order from there.

    C Major Modes - Derivative Approach (AKA Shift the Starting Point)
    C Ionian: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (AKA C Major)
    D Dorian: D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D
    E Phrygian: E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E
    F Lydian: F, G, A, B, C, D, E, F
    G Mixolydian: G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G
    A Aeolian: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A (AKA A Minor)
    B Locrian: B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B

    The modes from either of these methods can be applied to the key of C (major). All that modes/scales really are is suggestions of notes that sound good over certain chords in a key. I haven't really gotten into mode to chord compatibility in any of my posts... I still need to write something about that. Perhaps I will now... heh.

    Formulaic

    Another approach to modes it to build them all with the same root note... for instance C... Rather than shifting the starting point, you change the intervals between the notes by applying a formula to the parent scale (C Major in this case)

    C Major Modes - Formulaic Approach (AKA Apply the Formula)
    C Ionian: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) (AKA C Major)
    C Dorian: C, D, D#, F, G, A, A#, C (1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8)
    C Phrygian: C, C#, D#, F, G, G#, A#, C (1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8)
    C Lydian: C, D, E, F#, G, A, B, C (1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 8)
    C Mixolydian: C, D, E, F, G, A, B♭, C (1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 8)
    C Aeolian: C, D, D#, F, G, G#, A#, C (1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 8) (AKA C Minor)
    C Locrian: C, D, D#, F, G, G#, A#, C (1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 8)

    You will hear the individual character of each mode best if you play them starting from the same root.

    Korz, I have a quick question based on your C Major to C Dorian change. When you make the change as you state, doesn't that also change the key? For example, C Major is C Major but C Dorian is a mode of Bflat Major. Is that correct?
    No, you don't change key. Yes, you are correct. By the derivative approach, C Dorian is the Dorian mode for the Bb Major scale.

    [Edit: I moved the application stuff here - link ]
    Last edited by mkorsmo; 02-06-2009 at 04:51 PM.
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  10. #20
    Free Member (Wimp!) sbryant's Avatar
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    Thanks Korz. That makes much more sense now. I appreciate your posts!!!

 

 

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