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  1. #11
    Premium Member rarebird0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRopes View Post
    I have book 'Guitar fretboard Workbook -A complete system for understanding the fretboard' by Barrett Tagliarino. This begins with the five root shapes and moves on to scale patterns and then Major and perfect intervals, triad arpeggios then chords and finaly modes. Im not sure how many parallels it has with Morgens course but as I have followed it somewhat then I can relate to some of what you are saying. In fact youhave convinced me to take a closer look at his course, beginning with some of the free youtube videos. It may well be that it compliments the book which has no accompanying cd so is a little dry at times.
    Thanks again for your time
    His course was created probably before there was a True Fire of JP. And it endures. TF just put the video into separate chapters. I find that I have to keep coming back to his lessons because it takes me a while to "grow" on things. I understand the science of this dynamic but you can't rush it. I think most things taught are expected to be learned sychronously as if we are computers that stay the same. But we're not. How we really learn is a Greek word called "plesiochronously" which means a system which works but with some "play" in it for individual parts to fulfill their needs. Imagine if you will how much education is just being dictated as if we get it on the spot when it's mostly just being received topically and regurgitated just to pass--when there could be a reform that lets people really connect with what they learn and develop a culture around that. Anyway, this old geezer committed his knowledge to media and teaches very well--he has you pause and figure out the next bit of rationale rather than just dispensing it regimentally. Even at that, just like the lesson I link above here at JamPlay with David Wallimann, the stuff shouldn't be expected to be learned by one go-through. I watched David's lessons several times because I knew he was really delivering fundamentals that we will always need but may never quite truly master at the level of artist. I hope that day does come but it still requires me to work more. I'm gonna buy Morgen's course from TF so I can have it forever regardless if I quit them (which I'm considering) or continue my monthly subscription. Right now I really want to learn Guthrie Trapp's lessons here but it's too much too fast--I need to grow around it for a while for his concepts to pop up in my mind like fresh hot toast from a toaster with a bell on it. Ding! By Jove, I've got it. That will probably take a few months. Good luck in what you're doing and keep it slow and steady. Digital means the clock is off and you can work plesiochronously (which I kinda Anglicize into the word "play-sychronously" ie not instantly but at a pace that works for you. Jim

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRopes View Post
    I have book 'Guitar fretboard Workbook -A complete system for understanding the fretboard' by Barrett Tagliarino.
    That's a great book, I have it also. Instead of signing up for yet another series of video lessons from yet another guitar learning website, I'd strongly suggest you make use of the instructor live chats... there are some excellent instructors here on Jamplay. They will happily answer any questions you may have, so pick something you're working on, and bring it to a live-chat with any questions you have. Don't be shy, its the best way to improve, and you're already paying for the service so why not use it? I've found that its great to have material ready to go before the chat, for instance, I'll record a lick or chord progression and have it online so the instructor can listen to it and then give me the feedback or help I need. I'll also use my cam to play for an instructor, which is really helpful as I can show them exactly where I'm having a difficulty. You can listen and watch the Jamplay instructors play, so that when they are giving advice, you know you're getting it from someone who has been successful at learning guitar. You can check out the different instructors until you find someone that you connect with and like both their playing and teaching style.

  3. #13
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    @rarebird - I enrolled for the free 30 days with Truefire so I can take a look around and use the material and see how I like it for a while. As I am moving house right now I have not chosen the best time to capitalise on this but anyway I may purchase his course for later use, tho based on SL's comments below I may just wait awhile as I don't want to do what I did with books, as in buy too many and not get the benefit from them. Though that series you pointed at looks good anfd I wil make use of the 30 days with it to make my decision.

    @Slipin Lizard - You have a very good point about 'signing up for yet another series of video lessons from yet another guitar learning website' I have done this with books in years past, thinking each book was going to be the breakthrough that it never was and ending up with too many unread books. It is a common trait I think. I will take a look at the instructor live chats, I did go in one a few days ago which was excellent and he was open to any questions, even off topic. I take it it is OK just to lurk on these? I dont have a camera yet and am moving house where I will have a room setup so hopefully will be able to partake more then.

    Thanks both

  4. #14
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    I like Barrett's book. I haven't got through the whole thing yet, but it was an eye opener when he discussed root shapes at the beginning on the book.

    As far as music theory, perhaps you came across this site: http://www.musictheory.net/. Musictheory.net has neat lessons. I've used it for the exercises too.

    Good day
    Gamma

  5. #15
    Premium Member palico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRopes View Post
    This is not a whinge, Jamplay is amazing and so full of great tutorials, but because of this it can be a bit overwhelming of which direction to go in.
    I am working my way through some of the video tutorials but get lost as far as applying theory is when it comes to Jamplay. A lot of my learning is outside of Jamplay because it seems to lack direction sometimes.

    As an example, I am currently learning the Major scale in all positions, I am also trying to memorise the arpeggio's for those shapes at the same time. After I have some fluency with this I intend to work on the relative minor shapes which is just relearning the root positions and chord tones I guess? Then the pentatonic etc. I guess after this I should start looking at Domionant 7 arpeggios and modes (this is down the way a bit) I tend to want to have major scale fluent before moving on which is perhaps the wrong way.

    I don't see anywhere on Jamplay that really gives me the theory, what to learn and how to learn it and how to apply it. Sure there are good chord charts and scale charts (why dont Jamplay give the CAGED system option on the chord charts by the way?)

    I can carry on becoming very proficient at scales and never really be able to use them. So really I am just asking where this info is on Jamplay, Im sure it is I just need to find it I guess?

    Thanks for reading
    What is it with Music Theory are you trying to accomplish? What is your goal. Without known "why" want to learn this, it will take much more time to get there. Rarebird covered fretboard theory some already. Music theory however doesn't apply to just one instrument, it applies to all of them. Of course your own a guitar forum so mixing fretboard theory (patterns) and music theory is a effective way to approach it. But without some idea of what you want to accomplish, it's hard to recommend a route.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by palico View Post
    What is it with Music Theory are you trying to accomplish? What is your goal. Without known "why" want to learn this, it will take much more time to get there. Rarebird covered fretboard theory some already. Music theory however doesn't apply to just one instrument, it applies to all of them. Of course your own a guitar forum so mixing fretboard theory (patterns) and music theory is a effective way to approach it. But without some idea of what you want to accomplish, it's hard to recommend a route.
    Well, that is a very good point. Perhaps I don't know my goal but initially I would like to play a few tunes and be able to play rythym and knock out a few good tunes or accompaniments to a standard to which I could play to others.
    I am putting in plenty of time with this but so far my technique is not good and I need to improve my ability to keep time. OK, so I dont need much theory for that, but further down the line when (if) my rythym playing becomes good enough I would like to record this or use a looper and then solo over this either based on an original tune or improvising and have an understanding of harmony for guitar.
    I am at an age where I am unlikely to ever play in a band so its mainly for my own entertainment in truth perhaps I should stick to acoustic and work on solo pieces but my heart lies in playing like some of my guitar heros.

  7. #17
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    One thing I should add to the above points which I did not make clear. The original reason for this thread was because I found a great tutorial series with Chris Liepe linked off the home page which was all about rythym. I could not find my way back to it which made me realise I had not really seen much content at all regarding theory or technique. This thread has all been about theory but it was meant to include technique.
    I had visited this page here regularly but not spotted the box on the right hand side that gave the link to the skill based lessons.

    My point for this post is that I recognise that I need to work on technique more than theory at the moment but mainly due to my bad thread title we have only discussed theory.

  8. #18
    Premium Member palico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRopes View Post
    Well, that is a very good point. Perhaps I don't know my goal but initially I would like to play a few tunes and be able to play rythym and knock out a few good tunes or accompaniments to a standard to which I could play to others.
    I am putting in plenty of time with this but so far my technique is not good and I need to improve my ability to keep time. OK, so I dont need much theory for that, but further down the line when (if) my rythym playing becomes good enough I would like to record this or use a looper and then solo over this either based on an original tune or improvising and have an understanding of harmony for guitar.
    I am at an age where I am unlikely to ever play in a band so its mainly for my own entertainment in truth perhaps I should stick to acoustic and work on solo pieces but my heart lies in playing like some of my guitar heros.
    Okay so it appears you mainly want to work on Technique but have heard that you need learn music theory but dont' really know why, other than it will help you in various ways. Which is true. Also you looking down the road to be able to improvise on lead guitar. As for Rhythm if you want to learn to match set of music notation exactly, there is not a lot of theory required. There is good bit of learning on note duration and commonly used rhythms for various styles. There is not a lot of theory on what notes to play here but more on how to play say a dotted 8th note feel. Or triple feel. Many of these you likely already do instinctively.

    So lets start with chords. You will want to take a look a scales and how they related to chords. You can do this without a guitar in you hands at all. Often you will see this refereed to as Chord Theory. They area of why do certain chords work with each other and others don't seem to. To play any cover of a song you don't really need to know this, you only need to know the chords that are played an when. But if you understand the song's key you can almost guess what chord is next based on feel.

    The secondary thing or longer term goal for you is to be able to improvise leads. To accomplish this you will need to understand fretboard theory and scales. You can start with memorizing the most commonly used scale patterns on guitar. The penatonic scales (major or minor) are where most people start and you would be surprised as how much you can accomplish using just those. There is also the full diatonic scales particular the 3 note per string patterns which can taking you blazing level, assuming you have the right and left hand technique to keep up.

    Your basic question thought is where is this in Jamplay.
    1. There is a section specifically on Theory.
    ->Go to Phase 2.
    ->Look over to the side where it says "In this section".
    ->Select "Skill-Based".
    ->Scroll down and you will see "Theory and Improvisation". The word "Improvisation" is more evident. There is set of several series on the topic from a couple different instructors.

    2. The material is also scattered throughout lessons.
    -> For example take a look at Chris Liepe's phase 1 series. Lesson 5 "Introduction to Scales" Lesson 8 "All about Intervals" etc... I have not done these specific lessons. From Chris I'm sure they are good. But the point is they theory is interspersed into the regular series. So you cover the technique and get some theory intermingled. So you can use it right way. This often is most effective way to get there because you do need both of them, technique and theory.

    3. For scale pattern, Got to the "Scale Library" and it gives a fretboard patterns for each scale. For the scales heavily used such a Major and Minor, there is even button for "Theory" which goes into it a bit. This would be hard to learn using just this information but pairs up well to expand you knowledge along with lesson sets.

    4. Live. See if you can find a live session on it with one of the instructors that have done a lesson set on it and ask them. If you don't see an appropriate one ask the staff if when one it or for a recommendation which instructor session would fit your question best. (You will get quicker answer to that on the "General Forum", as long as it's a specific question).

    5. Have specific questions as you progress, ask them here. Although as with most forum post, follow up and make sure you have been given solid advice. Realizing many of us have found different approaches work for us that may or may not work for you.

  9. #19
    Moderator jbooth's Avatar
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    We are going to be doing a live course on Theory starting in January. It would be great to attend and ask any and all questions you have and get direction. It is with David Wallimann.
    Co-Founder and Content Specialist at JamPlay.com

  10. #20
    Premium Member rarebird0's Avatar
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    What has always evaded me is not the bits and pieces of theory but how to think while playing. And To be perfectly frank I stil haven't encountered a learning module that covers that. Indeed it may be a bigger thing than can be contained in a lesson, but surely it can be addressed in a lesson series. How does scale knowledge become a calculus for an instantaneous improvisational lead? Or is that even an appropriate question? At this stage of my playing and understanding, such knowledge becomes a matter of how NOT to glaringly fck up once I've committed to a certain flavor. But I don't know if there is hope for me at mastering all scales and modes to the point where I can change from the stumbly way I have come to play and think the way I do and be proactive in real time where I am actually drawing upon hard knowledge of scales and chords to deliver an impressive performance.

    Some of the teachers here an on other popular sites of this kind have let it slip that they went to college specifically for music. Does that mean that they have started their own development in such a way and at such a time in their lives that it's really a con to even think they can bring a newbie of any age along to the point of knowing what and how to think as a competent musician? I really am not satisfied with anything I've encountered anywhere. It doesn't address the initial motivation and perspectives of what one's objectives are i.e. to simply be able to play other people's music all the way to having the wherewithal to create original music? Could that coincidentally be because those who teach have also be just sorta dropped into a baptism under fire where no one helped them to formulate long and short term goals? I don't know. But it seems to matter entirely at least to me. And that may really be what more of us are hoping for than we realize. It's like where do I go? Who do I ask? Who is whom? What's wrong with me? Is the fault with me or is teaching and learning still a primitive thing that is artificially held on high as some kind of ideal when in truth it produces far more misses than hits? Is there a no-miss modality possible now with this digital technology but the culture of those using it is content with a high failure rate? Is everything done that can be done to find out the success versus failure rate or is business profitable to the point where it's good enough to make money and convince yourself you've done enough? I don't believe in anything, I KNOW there can be an all-hit and no-miss modality that creates a higher standard that could drive educational reforms from the bottom upward because people will flock to sure things versus "the old way".
    Last edited by rarebird0; 12-15-2015 at 04:00 PM.

 

 

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